Fort Lauderdale Fire and Rescue personnel using fire trucks for shopping trips. Should this happen?
Posted Under: City Employee Salaries,Fire Department Issues,Important Issues for Fort Lauderdale
Fort Lauderdale Fire and Rescue personnel using fire trucks for shopping trips. Should this happen?
A reader of our web site sent me a photograph last week of Fort Lauderdale Fire Trucks parked alongside a Publix grocery store on Sunrise and 15 Ave (photo is shown below). He was concerned when he saw that our fire and rescue personnel were shopping inside Publix while they were on duty.
What would happen if they were called to an emergency while they were shopping? Would they run out, with their arms full of groceries? The parking lot is always jammed full of cars and getting out to Sunrise or 15 Ave is difficult at best. Traffic is a nightmare there. How much extra time would it take for them to get out? Would they be able to respond to an emergency in time?
I decided to contact our Fire Chief, Jeffrey Justinak. Even though he has been our Fire Chief for less than 6 months, he has been in our Fire Department for over 23 years. I spoke to him on the shopping issue & several other issues last week. That resulting phone conversation left me with a number of concerns. I am sharing them with you here.
Shopping at Publix!
First, as part of a previous union contract (according to Chief Justinak), the Fire Department is authorized to go on “shopping trips” while they are on duty (and use our fire trucks that get 3-4 miles per gallon to do it). Under the current contract, Fire and Rescue personnel work one 24-hour shift at the fire station (say 8am to 8am the following day) and then have two days off. They are paid full-time salaries even though they do not work the following two days.
As part of this arrangement, all fire and rescue personnel on duty during that 24 hour period are allowed one shopping trip. The only limitation is that the trip must be within their “response zone” a certain distance from their fire house. Since the City does not provide for their meals while on duty, the fire personnel must bring their own food and drink while serving in the fire house during that 24-hour tour of duty. Chief Justinak explained that by doing this, the City saves money by not having to feed them.
But wait a minute! These folks are only there for a 24-hour period. Why can’t they purchase and bring with them (in their own vehicles), what they will need for their 24 hour shift? Why must they wait until they go on-duty to go shopping? And using expensive City Fire trucks to go on a group shopping trip seems a bit frivolous (and expensive to taxpayers). I asked Chief Justinak that. His response. “Fire and rescue personnel like to do things as a team. They like to eat together and shop together.” Well I’m sorry Chief, but I think going grocery shopping together is taking the “team concept” a bit far…
An old-timer familiar with the fire department grumbles: “Under the old system, fire and rescue personnel put in an 8-hour shift, just like everyone else. We didn’t pay them to sleep or to shop.”
Another problem with this “24-hours on-duty then 48 hours off-duty” is this: Our fire and rescue personnel are paid high, full-time salaries to provide fire and rescue services here. What happens when they are off duty? Can they work other jobs? I asked Chief Justinak about this. After some hesitation, the Chief answered: “A large portion of them do work another job”.
Another insider told me: “Don’t be surprised if you found dozens of our fire & rescue personnel working in other Fire Departments in Broward, Miami-Dade or Palm Beach counties.” I asked Chief Justinak about this. He replied: “I have no way of knowing whether that is true or not.”
But one thing is known for sure. Almost 90% of our fire and rescue personnel don’t even live in Fort Lauderdale, so they could be “double dipping” with other Departments and we wouldn’t know it. Since the average salary of fire and rescue personnel here is more than double the average salary of a Fort Lauderdale resident, they don’t need to take on other employment. But apparently they do. If Chief Justinak is right, then that other employment (during their 48 hours when they are off-duty) could be endangering Fort Lauderdale residents who need help after a heart attack or car accident.
According to the Chief, there are over 40,000 calls a year for service from our City’s fire & rescue teams. That seems like a lot, but we have 13 rescue crews on call at any given time, scattered around the 10 fire stations here in the City. If you do the math, each on-duty rescue crew gets about 8.5 calls during their 24-hour shift, or about one call every 3 hours.
That doesn’t seem like a lot of calls per crew, but how safe will that rescue crew be if they have been on duty for 23 hours, then get a last minute call to help someone in a major car accident or someone who just had a heart attack? Will they be as quick, alert and professional as they were when they started, 23 hours earlier? Now, add in the extra employment activity most of these folks apparently do. That 48-hour down time was given to them to recharge their batteries after a 24-hour shift. Instead, we find that they are using that time for extra employment elsewhere.
Is this current system risking people’s lives needlessly? And if most of these fire and rescue folks are using those 48 hours to work somewhere else, then why did we provide this to them in the first place? It doesn’t seem like they are using that time the way it’s supposed to be used. In fact, they may just be endangering themselves and others if they are using those off-duty 48 hours to do anything but rest.
The other problem with the current system is that the hardest jobs are given to the least experienced. Fire and rescue personnel bid on jobs by seniority. Most of the senior folks know to bid on the “fire-specific” shifts (ie: with the the hook and ladder trucks). They are rarely called out, and normally get a full night’s sleep. One insider mentioned we have an average of 4-6 true fires a year here in the City, so these folks don’t get called out much. Plenty of time to work out, sleep, watch TV, etc. But the rescue personnel get called out a lot more and it’s generally those personnel who have less experience and seniority. They are the ones who have to provide fire and rescue services to us on a daily basis. Shouldn’t our more experienced fire personnel be providing the services that we need the most on a daily basis?
I’ve checked with a number of large cities around the country. Most no longer provide a 24-hour-on, 48-hour-off system. Most cities I contacted have gone back to a standard 8-hour shift for all fire and rescue personnel. When I asked why, the response was: “It insures that fire and rescue personnel get the sleep they need. The system you have encourages abuse of the time they have off. If they work when they are supposed to rest, it endangers your citizens who may need help and are dependent on your first responders.”
We need to have our fire and rescue personnel alert, and capable of providing top notch service. If someone has worked another job during their last 48 hours, are they going to be as alert as someone with 48 hours of rest? Do we need to change our system back to an 8-hour shift? There are a number of other excesses I have encountered with our Fire Department (ie: double-cab rescue vehicles that cost us $20K extra per vehicle, and too many Assistant/Battalion/Division Chiefs); I’ll save those for another article.
But I have to commend our Fire Chief Jeff Justinak for speaking with me. He was frank and open in our conversation and I want to thank him for that. He wanted me to pass this on to you: “We recognize who we work for. And anytime anyone has questions, they are free to contact me directly. My office number is 954-828-6863.”
So feel free to give him a call, if you want to ask him about any of these issues. Personally, I think it’s time we re-negotiated contracts for the Fire Department. I think we need to go to an eight-hour shift and do away with any “moonlighting” that endangers our safety, and end the practice of allowing personal shopping while on duty, which uses our expensive fire vehicles as SUVs.
The problem is though, that nothing will happen. We have a Mayor and Commission who depend on the Police and Fire Unions to help them get elected, and an unqualified City Manager who does not want to “stick her neck out”. She’s only interested in maintaining the status-quo and in protecting fellow employee salaries. None of them are exhibiting any Leadership!
Once again, we the residents and taxpayers get left out. If you are concerned about this, then call your Mayor and your District Commissioner. Let them know how you feel. They may not even be aware of this issue. Who knows, you might be able to provide a public service by educating them! Their contact information is on the home page of our web site (www.abetterftlauderdale.com).
Earl Rynerson
Reader Comments
Please list the major cities you contacted which stated they work 8 hour fire/rescue shifts.
Here is a reply from a national fire rescue department on why they work 24 hour shifts instead of 8 hour shifts.
“The bottom line – firefighters working a 24 hour shift saves the public money. It is the most efficient way to staff the fire department, which is why it is done nationwide. No schedule for firefighters is more predominant.
The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) exempts firefighters from certain overtime rules. These exemptions allow firefighters to work their usual 24 hour shift at straight time wages. Other professions receive overtime any time an 8 hour work day is exceeded. Firefighters do not receive overtime wages during their normal 24 hour work period. There are provisions in FLSA under which firefighters may receive an additional ½ time pay for up to 3 hours a week if NO annual leave, sick leave, Military leave or workers compensation time is taken This has a low occurrence rate and can be further explained upon request.
24 hour shifts provide the most personnel on duty with the fewest number of actual employees, saving personnel costs on health care and retirement.”
Example: A police department has 36 assigned to patrol. These 36 employees, working 10 hour shifts, maintain a minimum staffing of 4 of officers on duty at all times.
The fire department in the same 24 hours is able to maintain a minimum staffing of 9 firefighters per shift with the same staffing number 36.
I’m sorry “City Employee”, but you will not be able to convince me that a fire/rescue professional will be as alert on his 23rd hour as he would be on his first hour. And whoever is working those 48 hours of “down time” (instead of resting) is endangering himself/herself and the public when that person returns to work.
Earl
Well done Earl. First, if we took a count of all fire staff (and police staff) that live in the city and Broward, we would be real surprised. And I am sure the out of county numbers are even higher for the Broward Fire Rescue (but that’s another story). I knew they shop w/the fire rescue behicles. Station 88/53 in NW FLL shops at Palm Aire Publix just north of McNab less than a mile from their station. Other city fire staff shop at Publix on Comm. at 441 (Tamarac) and Publix at Blvd. of Champions (N. Lauderdale). I also know some fire dept. staff at multiple levels have second jobs, go to school to get degrees, including advanced degrees and other certifications to ove up the ladder. The system has been in place for so long everyone accepts it. If you compare fire calls to EMT and other types of calls, the latter exceeds theformer. This is how they justified downsizing the program requirements for the new FS under the ’04 bond. Only the first one or two stations were built to the larger program. Thank you for putting this out for all to know. I do not think it will change and there are probably clauses in the contract to assure this. If you really want to upset the apple cart, start a discussion about FLL fire staff merged into the Broward County squad. This came up briefly during the 2002-2003 FLL budget crisis. You would think economy of scale makes sense for police and fire county wide (just like less muni government bodies) but they apparently don’t agree. But ask Justinak that the next time you chat.
And if you go to SW 4th Ave (between SE 24th Street and Snyder Park), you’ll see a Broward County Fire Station just 3-4 blocks away from a City Fire Station. It makes no sense to me…
Earl
Are you for real??? Now you are attacking fire fighters that need to eat. Who do you think is going to feed the fire fighters? Your concern about money is overwhelming. So do you own a Prius to do your shopping or don’t you eat? It is not good enough that a person gives up a straight 24 hour period, has rotating days off and puts his life on the line, now you want to crucify him for going to the grocery store for something to eat? I guess you were never given a lunch hour or a break in your career either. Congrats for continuing to be a jerk!!
Sorry you feel that way, Cynthia. Our fire professionals can bring their own food before they go on duty. It’s ridiculous to go to the station, get their buddies, then drive an expensive fire truck to the grocery store. I think the process that’s in place now wastes taxpayer dollars and can be improved upon… And I think if we had 8-hour or 12 hour shifts instead of 24 hour shifts, we would have more alert fire and rescue personnel with less opportunity to be moonlighting elsewhere.
Earl
Wasn’t it traditional that fire personel ate together? Aren’t there Food Network shows about firefighter chefs?
I’ve always assumed that the fire trucks I’ve seen at grocery stores and the fire personnel inside were shopping to prepare meals for the group, and not individually. And I don’t see a problem with that. This wasn’t made clear in your article. And I’m fairly sure they are not staying up for 24 hours on their shifts, but rather sleeping in the dorm rooms that I again assume are still being built into firestations.
I applaud your continued focus on wasted money in Broward
and Ft Lauderdale government. But I’d rather you continue attacking the waste of police vehicles being driven home every night. Are our police officers reporting this as a income benefit?
Thank you Earl for getting lively discussion started. And you are right about county and city stations real close to one another. I supported the Firefighters (and police) during the 2002-20003 FLL budget crisis . The FS bond was approved in 2004 because they deserved adequate, modern and safe stations after we let the others fall into disrepair.
If you looked at the kitchens in the new FS, they look like you could cook for a party of 25, including FS 2. They bring their lunch and dinner in FLL? If they bring their own why did we not just give a galley kitchen with microwave(s). Each sleep room is separate (NOT a dorm style now that its co-ed) with internet connection/wireless for EACH sleeping room. That wireless came up a few years back when it was left out of the base costs and became a change order/add-on. These stations are costing 225.00/sq.ft. or more. I agree that 8 or 10 hr. shifts (maybe for 3 days off) may work but its very difficult to change the culture and the system. When I see them shopping in the stores they have carts of stuff as if cooking for a family (?). The Sun-Sentinel as few years back did a story in the Thursday Food section about 2 brothers, both FLL firefighters, who were real good chefs and how their stations loved their cooking. So there are conflicts on this cooking/bring your own stuff. (I will not memntion their last name but I know it and I know many will recognize who they are). I don’t deny any of their bonding and brotherhood aspects of the work, and getting to eat together, but as we are hearing from numerous states around the country, if we do not get a handle on costs (and pensions) the pension funds will be dry. The NJ gov was just saying that last night. Scott will be saying the same in 2 weeks when he moves to Tallahassee. I personally think that starting from scratch I would consider COUNTY-wide police and fire but Broward has 30+ municipalities that want to be independent. Years ago the unincorporated areas of Broward were equal to the muni areas. The state has required annexation by 2000 or 2005 and still pockets exist that no city wants as they do not get enough from them to justify costs of services. Its a quagmire that needs serious review in order for FLL to continue to keep their own fire. And will we really get the 10 stations from Fire Bond referendum as promised?? Thats a question for the chief and others!!
Earl
You truly are scraping the bottom of the barrel this time.
Youre making it seem like these men and women are in there shopping for hours on end and buying months worth of groceries. They are usually in there buying the foods necessary for their shifts.
Yes, I guess they could go out and buy their groceries on their time, but are we really at the point in our society that we are going to lambaste them cause they “wasted” in your terms a few gallons of gas. I know, every penny counts and i agree but at some point we as a society need to take a hard look at where we are pinching those pennies. They’re not out there cruising the strip or joyriding. They’re in their zones. And yes, they do drop the groceries if a call comes in to answer your questions.
Also, the firefighters like any other person, is guaranteed under the US Constitution the freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness….and yes…that includes getting a second job. How dare society intrude into their personal lives. So what if they make alot of money off duty. I will give you that, yes, they need to be fresh and ready for duty. Put some faith in their supervisors to monitor it.
I find it funny you advocate for 8 hour shifts when almost all of govts are going to 10, 11.5 and 12 hour shifts as a cost savings measure. Most all govts realize that the 8 hour shift is antiquated and costs more money in staffing so i truley dont get it.
Lastly Earl..you are correct….the place to look in all of this is consolidation….there are way to many fire depts and police depts. I feel the time has come to take a hard look at the system and have a report generated with solid facts and figures….not assumptions about the pros and cons of consolidation
Sorry, but until someone can explain to me why it is necessary to use taxpayer funded vehicles to do personal shopping, and why it’s OK for firemen to work a second job (when they are supposed to be using that 48 hours to rest from their 24 hour shift), I’ll continue to ask these types of questions… And I agree, there is nothing wrong with a 12 hour shift instead…
Earl
Earl,
You stated expensive fire vehicles going grocery shopping. What about if they are needed for emergency calls and their shopping. Think about all the times 911 is called for BS calls I think that expense is a lot more than a trip to the grocery store once a day. Try riding a shift before you share your opinions. Then and only then can you post a truth and not an opinion.
1. Consolidate, Consolidate, Consolidate !!! ASAP ! The only way we are going to get these cost under control.
2. Are you aware of how many pool service. & pressure cleaning Businesses are run by Firefighers?
3. No one has even touched on the “out-of-town” training & travel costs. Now there’s a line-item to look at! Why don’t we bring the trainers here? Ask Lori Parrish how she handles that.
Ms Linda….
1. I agree that consolidation should be looked at for cost saving measures but always remember…once you consolidate or go to an entity like BSO…the individual cities loose control and loose the ability to control the type of policing and service they want to an extent.
2. Who cares….its their off time… Let me ask you this, if these individuals worked an 8 hour shift and did this in their off time…would that still be an issue? They work their shift, get off and on their OWN time operate a buisness. That is their buisness…not ours.
3. Most training budgets have been slashed to the bones. be careful what you ask for. Proper training is essential in the public sector field. I agree, its a good idea to bring trainers here but that costs money as well.
Earl to quote you, “Sorry, but until someone can explain to me why it is necessary to use taxpayer funded vehicles to do personal shopping, and why it’s OK for firemen to work a second job (when they are supposed to be using that 48 hours to rest from their 24 hour shift), I’ll continue to ask these types of questions… And I agree, there is nothing wrong with a 12 hour shift instead…”
So using that logic….every single public …..and…private employee who utilizies a comapny vehicle should bring their lunches?
Let me ask you this…if said firefighters are entitled to a lunch/dinner break…could they take said firetruck to the restaurant? Would that make it better…this truly makes no logic whatsoever!
Theyre not “personal” shopping…they’re not out buying furniture…they’re buying small meals for the day.
Youre making it seem…again…like theyre goin out and buying food for 100′s…. Theyre entitled to eat.
Earl…if tommorrow, they changed that policy…you still would find something else to bitch about.
In reference to your 48 hour logic…so said firefighters get off at 7am…assuming they sleep the recommended time off…which I would assume since theyre off 48 hours….sleep 16 hours….that leaves 32 hours of their personal time left…what are they supposed to do then? Like i said…who the heck are we…even as taxpayers to tell these people what to do with their off time. If they want to work, run a home buisness or sleep…thats their perogative.
And for the record, Im not a firefighter.
As long as they are fit for duty…which there has not been one evidence that there not of in your article, let them be.
How many other goverment employees have 2nd jobs. How many citizens have 2nd jobs.
How many jobs do you have Earl…have you ever had a second job.
You talk a mean game….put your money where your mouth is….
Go to one of the Ft Laud Fire Stations…go talk to the firefighters…maybe take a moment to say thank you….you know why????
Because when you need help, rescue or medical attention…they will be there….NO QUESTIONS ASKED
And by the way….dont delete this like you usually do to my posts.
If youre a true open blogger….retort in a logical manner and let this post be.
Happy Holidays Earl
And the regionalization has begun…..
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/fl-dania-bso-merger-20101222,0,7375775.story
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/fl-dania-bso-merger-20101222,0,7375775.story
“It goes along with our philosophy of a regionalized fire-rescue service,” McNamara said. “We’re trying to reduce the redundancies in service. By merging, there is a significant cost savings now and down the road.”
This quote from S-S link above. Like I wrote on this site Dec. 20 it is economy of scale. It is inevitable at the local level just like vScott if planning to do at state level.
My favorite is what is going on in the Unincorporated pocket called Broadview Park just west of Ft Lauderdale.
The BSO fire station on SW 46 Ave has been shut down for 2 years due to an AC problem.
So what did they do…the county moved the BSO fire truck to the Davie Fire Station on SR7 south of the 595.
Now talk about a duplication of services!
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/pdf/efop/efo29065.PDF
Interesting paper…
Written back in 1998! about regionlization of fire service in Broward County
Earl, this time you have gone way to far!! These men and women are at the station for 24 hours and you complain about them eating!!! And 4-6 fires a year??? Look on Sun Sentinal or just google fires in Fort Lauderdale and you will see that this is an incorrect statement. Also, I would like you to look at some of the run surveys in Fire House magazine. These compare Fort Lauderdale to other large cities such as Los Angeles and New York. Station 2 and 46 are always in the top 10 busiest year after year. As a matter of fact, the last time that they did a run survey, Fort Lauderdale station 2 was the busiest in the country!!! Until you come on here and bash the FD, I recommend that you do your research. By the way, the NFPA recommends safe staffing levels for the FDs across the country which Fort Lauderdale is below some of their recommened levels. 24 hour shifts save the city tons of money. If the FD was to work 8 hour shifts, you would have to hire atleast 3-4 more shifts of firefighters. By the way, they have 48 hours off because thats how long it takes Carbon Monoxide (which is a deadly gas that bonds to your hemoglobin and smothers it, inhibiting O2 levels in the body) to get out of their blood stream. Also, 24/48 means that firefighters work a minimum of 48 hours a week, thats 8 hours more than the average civilian. I understand that you are looking for ways to save money, however, I believe that theres more reasonable problems to deal with. Please stop picking on those who protect us.
Sorry, James, but neither the Fire Department nor the Police Department (nor any other city department) should be immune to scrutiny. ALL City Departments need to cut their budgets and look for ways to save taxpayer dollars. Using Fire vehicles to shop during their 24 hour shift is simply a wasteful use of City resources, and there is no logical reason for having this “perk”. Folks in our Fire Department who are complaining most about this (would that be you??), should stop and understand that you work for the Fort Lauderdale taxpayer. All City employees need to do a better job in finding ways to reduce costs. City residents and taxpayers are having to do this, so should you.
Earl
Even if they need to eat, do they really need to shop at the Sunrise Home Depot with the truck out front? Saw it with my own 2 eyes about 3 weeks ago….what a waste of $$$.
And when is the last time you did a ride along????
“Sorry, James, but neither the Fire Department nor the Police Department (nor any other city department) should be immune to scrutiny. ALL City Departments need to cut their budgets and look for ways to save taxpayer dollars. Using Fire vehicles to shop during their 24 hour shift is simply a wasteful use of City resources, and there is no logical reason for having this “perk”. Folks in our Fire Department who are complaining most about this (would that be you??), should stop and understand that you work for the Fort Lauderdale taxpayer. All City employees need to do a better job in finding ways to reduce costs. City residents and taxpayers are having to do this, so should you.
Earl”
Ok first of all, you arent the only one here that pays taxes. I happen to pay plenty of taxes yearly just like you. I think these men and women understand who they work for and answer everytime they are called upon. So no need to try and be condesending. Heres my problem though, these employees work for 24 hours and need to eat just like you do. I can tell you right now that driving 1 or 2 miles to the store is not going to save you on your taxes. There have been plenty of cuts to extremely essential services in the public safety departments to save us $5 on our taxes. When you start inhibiting these employees from eating or cutting essential services, is that $5 really worth it? I never exempted anyone from scrutiny, I just think that you are being a rediculous. Our city has an excellent fire department and just look at your fire assessment fee ($45 I think was the last one), Do you know what residents in Palm Beach and unicorporated Broward or Miami Dade pay? Try $200-$400!! Thats the point I am trying to get across. These departments are running on bare minimum as it is and any more cuts will lead to layoffs and shutting down services. There are plenty of other areas that are non-essential services where cuts can be made. Lets stop nickel and diming your life(safety) and mine.
James, I think you still miss the point. There is no logical reason to spend city resources to go grocery shopping while on duty. Our fire folks are professionals, and they can plan ahead for their 24-hours in a fire house without having to shop. Our City Departments are NOT running on bare minimum; there is waste everywhere. Look at the number of un-needed Assistant/Batallion/Division Chiefs that we are paying six-figure salaries to. The number of senior staff positions have grown in all City Departments, not just the Fire Department. You are defending something that cannot logically be defended, James. Sorry-
Earl
“And whoever is working those 48 hours of “down time” (instead of resting) is endangering himself/herself and the public when that person returns to work”
Earl,
Please provide a list of “approved” activites our fire professionals should be allowed to do during their time off. I guess lawn work would be too strenuous? If you are monitoring their activities 24/7 then aren’t they on-call 24/7? I would guess they would require a salary that is proportionate to working 365 days per year then.
I’m not a city budget person, but I would guess if you reduced the number of work hours to 8 you would end up having to hire more people to cover the 24 hour period. So that would increase salary and healthcare costs.
Why don’t you look into finding out how many non-certified firefighters they hire and then send through fire, EMT, and paramedic school at taxpayer expense. Then, find out how many of them actually complete the training and/or stay employed more than a year. Shouldn’t they stick to hiring only certified personnel? I would bet that could save some money.
I get you are wanting to save money, but taking a truck a mile to a grocery store? Really? I just don’t find that a huge priority. Unless you can show me a significant dollar amount I just don’t think it is a big deal.
Kelly-
Sure it, might not sound like a big deal, but it’s not necessary. And anything that is not necessary to providing services to our residents should be questioned.
As far as what a firefighter does during his time off, he was provided that 48 hours to rest and recuperate from their 24 hour time on duty, not go work at another job. They get paid a full-time salary as it is. If most of them are working at another job during their 48 hours off, then we need to get them back to working 8-12 hours a day, every day, here in Fort Lauderdale, and eliminate that paid 48 hour “rest” period.
Earl
Earl,
Obviously firefighters are paid a full-time salary. They work two 24 hour shifts a week. Last I checked that would be a 48 hour work week (without overtime). Please explain your rationale that they are being paid for the 48 hour rest period. The average worker gets a full-time salary for 40 hours per week, or does that include nights and weekends of rest? You make it sound like it is a privelege that they have 48 hours off in between shifts. They still work FULL time. I just dno’t think your argument is valid. Have you actually sat down with someone in the fire service to discuss why this schedule was adapted? Or what the cost benefits or wastes are with this type of schedule. WHy are you so sure that making them work 8 hour shifts would decrease spending? Please show me your statistics on this subject.
I completely understand your concern about “double dipping” during time off. Most corporations have employees sign a no-competition clause to avoid that. If it makes you happy, maybe firefighters should sign such a clause while currently employed with a department. However, I still don’t think they shouldn’t be allowed to get a second job on their days off. Millions of people work multiple jobs to support a family. WHy should a fire profesional be denied that? What if they need the money to pay bills etc? And once they retire why should they be banned from ever working in the fire serivce again? I would think retired firefighters make great fire chiefs etc. They have a tremendous amount of experience that shouldn’t go to waste.
I agree with many of your arguments regarding wasteful spending, but I feel you just have a dislike for fire (and police) professionals in general. Lots of commentators have been attacking fire and police for outrageous salaries and pensions recently…..please show me a wealthy fire or police professional. Unless they own some highly profitable business on the side, I doubt you will find one. I wonder how many of these men and women work second jobs to make ends meet? You mentioned once about how most live outside of the city limits, did you ever think that maybe they can’t afford to live in the city limits? A fireman with a family probably couldn’t afford a decent home in Fort Lauderdale (median price of over $300k from 2005-2008). Well, unless they over extend themselves with a bad mortgage they can’t possibly repay….oh wait isn’t that part of the reason we are in such a housing mess?
There are so many areas of government that are extremely wasteful, instead of going after those that risk their lives everyday for complete strangers, why not go after officials that consistently give themselves raises, better benefits and pensions they truly don’t deserve. I’d be curious to know how many past and present city officials (or just non-union) workers benefit from a pension they never earned.
And just out of curiosity, how much do you think the life of a firefighter or police officer is worth? $25k-$30k per year? Why would anyone want such a job for little money and no retirement? Don’t you want to attract qualified professionals?
What’s the value of a soldier getting shot at in Afganistan or getting a leg blown off from a mine they walked across? You can’t answer either question, yet a soldier in constant harm’s way overseas makes MUCH less than a fireman or police officer here.
No, I have nothing against police or fire professionals as people. Most are fine individuals. But I have a problem when someone gives the knee-jerk reaction: “How dare you; they are putting their life on the line every day for us” mantra. No, they are not. The people putting their life on the line every day for us are our troops in foreign countries getting killed and maimed on a daily basis.
Our police and fire professionals are very well paid. Our fire professionals work two 24-hour shifts a week, but what is “work”? For the most part it’s watching TV, working out, sleeping, shopping, doing crossword puzzles, cleaning the fire truck, etc. Sure, they get called out on 911 calls or actual fire emergencies, some as many as 4-5 times in a 24 hour shift. But let’s be real. That is when they actually work, not when they are watching TV. The majority of time they are ‘on call’ in the fire house and not working.
And for those 48 hours after their 24 hour shift? It was given to them to “rest” from their 24 hour “ordeal”, to insure that they are alert when they come back to the station. But if, (as the Chief indicated), most of them have a second job, then they are endangering themselves and those to whom they are responding to when they return to work. They will not be as alert as they should be.
Kelly, I appreciate your email and you raise some good points. But the current system simply doesn’t make sense. Unless there is something I am missing in this issue, I think we should return to an 8-12 hour shift and have everyone work without the extended amount of time off.
Earl
Listen it’s easy for you critics talk about these fire fighters when the fact is. They ingage into life threatning activities that you dare not. Yes they have to eat, and on top of that, as to the comments pretainig to soldiers. I’m one, yes, we do recieve hazard pay, along with rank pay plus our families receive BAQ,oh yes that for living expense and gas as well, and we deserve more, in war time only. Fire Fighters only recieve there basic pay and they do this almost every day, almost until they retire. Eat Smoke, Call after call right from a fire scene to have to resusitate some one maybe you and then might have to turn around and assist with or put out another fire. Instead of running your mouth about this how about giving them praise for saving lives daily. “While we are running out of burning building’s they are running in. Those fires reach almost 1500 degrees. Leave them alone. Talk about saving money that they use beautify peoples personal property,(the tree and plant nursery) but please the the firemen alone. Please. There Time Off, be for real, it’s obvious what you do with your time off.
Sorry, I disagree. They should receive a fair wage, but what we pay them today is well in excess of that.
Earl
The real problem with “moonlighting” is injury on the other job. As a full time air ambulance pilot, I am contractually prohibited from flying for any other company. The reason for this is that should I become injured in my moonlighting position, I am unable to perform my lifesaving duties for which I am contracted to perform.
Very good point!
Earl
Think of spending 1/3 your life during your working career with a fire station full of your peers. We shop together, we eat together, we get awoken at 3 am together for a child with a seizure or your grandmother who has fallen and broken a hip in the bathroom. We do not need to justify driving a truck around in our own response zone to shop for daily groceries. We get to know the public better, we meet the citizens and visitors of our city on these and other out of the station details. Firefighting is as much a brotherhood as a job. Relationships are built in many ways and as such you know what the person next to you in a structure fire is made of. And dont bother responding to this, people like you think you know everything and can never be told anything. Some things cannot be explained, only experienced. The fact that you spend your time criticizing police and fire is a tell tale sign you have never needed their services. Count your blessing for that.
Sorry, Robert, but your “holier than thou” attitude needs to change. If you are in actuality a fireman (and not someone who is just pretending to be, since I have received a number of emails from you with different names which have been nothing more than personal attacks), you need to understand that you work for the people of Fort Lauderdale. Your attitude only serves to strengthen the belief of many that the entitlements that public service employees receive need to be re-examined.
Earl
There is a CVS drug store on the corner of Federal (US1) and 17th street causeway..the truck parked on the medium almost everyday, sticks out like a sore thumb…a HUGE FIRE TRUCK…there is no eatery in CVS or even a grocery store near it..
Can someone tell me why that vehicle is (always)there?
The other question I have is the fire station down on A1A next to the Bahia Cabana. I wondered how some of the most Prime Realestate was allotted for this station?
I was told there was a very expensive high dollar gym inside overlooking the beach.
This is a roadway I travel frequently and I noticed that all traffic in North and South bound lanes must stop when these trucks pull out and or in of this station.
Why was this particular location allotted for this station? One block west around Birch Road the area has become a dead zone and I am sure could have been purchased cheaper..Anyone know?
Last week, 3 large fire trucks parked at Publix (off 17th st/Cordova). No sign of fire, was there an emergency? I have photos but don’t see option to upload…
I work for a fire rescue DEPT. And we are very considerate about are cities money that’s why we only stop at the store on the way back from a call and only if it falls on are route back to quarters. As for the 24 hour shift, you never know what happens on a shift your 23 hour might be your most rested fresh hour, feeling great and perfect to save a life.
I agree with another reader Earl that you “truly are scraping the bottom of the barrel”. You seem like a very petty person that will not allow one cent without being accounted for. These firemen, more than likely, are out buying the things to prepare their meals, NOT shopping for personal things and so what if they use the fire trucks on the way back from responding to a call? And don’t get me started with how you try to belittle the responsibiities of our police department and say that we are all in danger once we step out of our homes. They are in danger during their whole shift! I wonder what will happen if YOU ever need a cop quickly. Will they be willing to risk their lives for someone that has it in for them? We won’t know until you need one though, right Earl?
Gia-
Your email speaks volumes about the “entitlement attitude” that seems to be so prevalent in so many public officials. “In danger their whole shift” is nonsense. Police and Fire folks take the job knowing the dangers up front. That’s why they should get paid a fair salary, but not one that is “over the top”, allowing them to retire in their 40′s and suck off the taxpayer for the rest of their lives. Very disappointing reply from you, and indicates to me that you are one of those folks.
Earl